[b]Not sure how much information I can put in this thread, pries etc but if anyone has any questions about the club please feel free to mail me.
I work at Chameleons and can answer questions honestly, but may be bias about how good it is ;)
SimplyJed
I couldn't care less that your leaving ........ after all it won't stop me seeing you at the club and it won't stop us visiting each other at our respective homes and it won't stop us chatting on other (free) sites or on so, understanding the credit crunch, I know why your doing what your doing.
It is the site that will miss you, your one of the rare couples in the lifestyle, you have taken me in as your friend and treated me with friendship and respect, now for those who don't know them or me, that means we don't play with each other, I am not Tiff's type, therefore it is even more of a compliment to me that they invite me to thier house regularly or come to mine, we have great social times together and one of the best things about this lifestyle is the friends you make not the sex you have, well for me at least.
So Bon Voyage Tiff and Mark but not farewell.
P.S. thanks for your hospitality and the Pizza last night ;)
Didn't get a chance to get to know you but this one act has gained you my respect.
You tried it, that takes guts.
You realised it wasn't for you, that takes savvy.
You got out of it, that takes wisdom, too many stick around till it causes problems within.
You got to experience a part of life that some never will, it's a bit like going to war, not everyone enjoys it, it's not always the fun you thought it would be, but the experience will last you a lifetime and in years to come it is one thing that you won't have to think "wish I had tried that" trust an old git when I say there are too many of those thoughts to come
Totally support the moral side of what your doing, but would like to say something on the subject, our troops don't need our financial support and they would not ask for it, they do howerver need our moral support, they need to know we are 100% behind them in the difficult task they do, that the rights and wrongs of the conflicts they fight in are not for them to worry about, that is the job of the politicians we elect, but whatever they are sent to do they do it with the support of the nation.
Personally I would plead for everyone to support them by letting them know just how much support they have in the UK, there are many sites you can leave messages of support,
is one example, but if you it you will find many Regiments have thier own sites that messages can be left on.
If you do feel you would like to give financial aid, SSAFA has been around since the first British Expeditionary forces left our shores and supports not only our wounded but also our serving soldiers and those who have served they also support the families of those serving abroad and those WIA or KIA.
The Royal British Legion does the same.
Hi all, just wanted to pass this message on as requested by Marc n Donna who are only free members at the moment,
They will definetely be attending Utopia on the 29th and looking forward to meeting up with all thier old SP friends
taking a non swinger to a social event is as everybody says, not a problem, lots of non swingers go to Utopia, Chameleons and Xstasia and I am sure many other clubs, those that do tend to enjoy the company of the true swingers that go to the clubs, they like the atmosphere, the people who are very sociable, the night out without drunken gropers and fighting it is nice to meet people who, whilst not wishing to do what we do are open minded enough to accept what we do without judging us, take her along and I am sure she will have a great time.
I would like to apologise to anyone I have offended with my replies to threads in these forums, I am not very good at putting my thoughts into text in a way that comes over the way they are usually intended.
I have total respect for swingers
I have total respect for them be they single or in a partnership
I like this site and many of the people here.
Out of my respect for the above people I have no respect for timewasters, abusive people or disrespectfull people
If I give my own opinion in here I know it is exactly that, my own opinion and not the views of everyone, I offer it in answer to questions asked believing that is why they are asked, I am sorry if they come over harsh or critical, the advice i state is based on my own beliefs and intended to help people and not criticise them.
I will try to make the words dance in fluffy bubbles with smiles on their faces like they do in my head but won't always be able to .....
Kaynie and Jed
Sudsy and I have spoken and hopefully we are now on the same wavelength, I do have a problem getting my point across in the right context, I am a smiley person, bouncy, never sad, always smiling, when I chat to people in person it is easy to see my attitude and easy to see that anything I say is said in a light hearted manner hopefully helpfull in it's context.
That said I am also respectfull of swingers, we do not cheat on partners we do not put our relationships or those of others in jeapardy, we do what we do with each others consent, one of the reasons I honestly believe that we can do this is because of the love we have for each other.
I love to see my partner happy, he loves to see me happy, he knows how much I love him, I know how much he loves me, having sex with someone else is the same as buying a nice shirt for him and the same for me (though I prefer shoes) it gives us pleasure, we don't want to spend the rest of our lives with the shoes or shirts we buy, we want some different ones next week, Sex and Love are different, we love each other enough to know the difference is just a bit of fun.
Truescorpio says "I can honestly say that if I was in a full, loving relationship wth a woman then I certainly wouldnt want to share her with anyone, male or female".
Of course that is his choice but we see that as selfish, he would begrudge his partner bisexual fun, or hetrosexual fun because of his own self doubts or jealousy, thats how we see it, not everyone will agree but thats truly what swinging is about, people with different views, yet I have to ask the question....
If you were to meet us Truescorpio how do you see us, how do you see Jed in that he would be allowing me to have sex with you, I take it that you would not have any respect for his love for me or for his respect for himself, thats how it comes over to us ..... thats what this thread is for though all opinions
The whole point of me saying Harsh ..... no honest advice was to show that I meant the advice in the best possible way, it is good for people to ask the questions and it is good for them to get advice from a couple like us who can show the kind of things we look for and advice from a single like you who has been successful on the site.
I have said it before and I will say it again, sometimes it is hard to put things in writing, in a conversation there are smiles, there is a tone of voice or a wink, there are ways of toning down the words, it is more difficult in a text box, I hope he will see the honesty of my words and the good intent with which it was intended, my comments show that I believe if he improves his profile he will have much more success on the site.
I am a single female, 22 years old and quite vulnerable, if I am going to go off and meet a single male I look for ways of diminishing the dangers, seeing contradictions in a profile ring alarm bells for me, I cannot afford to take chances with my life, there are many genuine males willing to meet and I would be foolish to take a chance, so I point out such things so that he can see why these things are important and why it might improve his chances.
As for the term "dresses to please", experience has shown us that not everyone does, we prefer not to embarass people by turning up at a nice restaurant or hotel or even in the street where you live dressed like a rubber fetish masochist or in a skirt that shows my arse with my nipples on show in my see through top, there are times and places for these things and I like to dress sexily if that is what pleases the people I am meeting but at the same time I have pointed out that I will listen to them and will not cause them to flinch when I arrive and look around them to see who is twitching the curtains or staring at us all in disbelief.
We have tried to make our profile informative, no we don't cam, swinging for us is not 2, 3 or 4 people who never meet up with anyone but perform for each other on cam, if that's what you want fine go ahead and do it but at least you will not waste your time contacting us because a quick read of our profile tells you that it's not what we do I am sorry that reading that offended you Sudsy.
As for being against single males, I wish I could find one or two to meet up with, sadly the number of scary males on here make that less and less likely. I know there are some really nice genuine guys here and have met some of them (Thanks Slapper-n-Stud for some great times) but trying to sort out which are safe and which are dangerous is getting more difficult all the time.
Totally agree with all the comments above from Lolly, Truescorpio and Sudsy, Camming is a personal thing, it has many good points, it does unfortunately have some downsides that the suggestions of seperate rooms for sexual content cams would cure.
Often in the chatroom it is difficult to get a conversation going with people because the text is moving quickly, that wouldn't be a bad thing if most of it wasn't pretty irelevant stuff, a lady takes off her top on cam and there with be 20 comments to say wow or words to that effect, a lady sits there wearing very little and so many comments in the chatroom are to say how wonderfull she looks, great, I am sure she does look wonderfull, but it does make it harder to get conversations going in the chatroom, a seperate room for cams with a sexual content would be good for the site.
I come to the chatroom to make friends with a view to meeting up, I have tried to find couples and single males but for me personality is important and I need the chatroom to see this, Truescorpio you know this first hand as I was not interested in you when you first contacted me but have since seen your personality in the chatroom and would be happy to meet.
So great have sex on cam, wank on cam, do what you want on cam but let's get admin to open a room were all that goes on and those of us who like to see a pretty smile of a cheeky grin on cam can do so in our own way, perhaps it is us that need a new room with no sexual contents cams allowed.
A quick run around this site Sudsy will show that contrary to your own beliefs, some of us are trying to help others by giving honest answers to questions and not trying to patronize the whole world. This is a swingers site, it is intended for swingers and there is nothing wrong with that.
God forbid anyone should say anything against a single person when your around.
You seem happy to make derogatory comments about anyone who makes a statement that is not in keeping with your own views. I believe Mork n Mindy would agree with me on this point.
You also seem to think I have something against single males on the site, hardly, I tried to get something against them and none of them were interested in meeting me, so be it, we each have our own tastes and I if I am not what the single males are looking for then, that's life and I live with it.
But how anyone can come to the forums and try to tell us that ALL single males on the site are great guys and all genuine amazes me, I think all comments against single males, single females or couples should be read with a simple rule in mind "if the cap fits ...... " there are lot's of really nice guys on the site, there are lot's of really genuine guys on the site, but there are lot's of timewasting idiots on the site too, these people be they couples or singles make it harder for the genuine couples and singles, some of them intimidate girls like me and are abusive to us, they make the site a place to avoid and perhaps even a dangerous place to be, So I am honest about them, I say it as I see it, I talk to everyone in the chatroom, say hello to as many as I can, and respect the genuine people.
By your own admission you didn't fully understand this question yet you saw fit to comment anyway rather than ask for clarification and your comment was that a single male may not wish to swing when he becomes part of a couple because he falls deeply in love with his partner, now I am not the worlds most intelligent person but to me that means that had he not been in love with her he could swing ie swingers are not really deeply in love with thier partners thats why they can allow other people to have sex with them. your comment "What I also said, Kaynie (and what you have conveniently overlooked because it doesn't suit your point of view), was that I could equally imagine a couple getting together and STILL being happy to swing."
totally confuses me since a couple are already together how can they get together again ?
At the end of the day these forums are a place to discuss all subjects, some subjects and replies will change your views, some will make them stronger and some will surprise you, none should be open to derogatory remarks for asking the questions because this is the reality this is what people out there are asking themselves and others so better to have it in the open were people can voice their own opinions.
It is always difficult to say exactly what you mean in print and is easier in verbal conversation, very few of us are writers by trade and sometimes all our comments can be taken in the wrong context, personally when I read the forums I try to bear this in mind. when I read your comments about swingers and love I also read the comments on your profile which tend to show that this comment was out of context with your thinking but felt that the way it comes across could be construed offencive to swinging couples.
Myself I like this site, I like the genuine people here, I just think it is a shame that genuine singles and couples are being dragged down by a large number of non genuine members.
[quote user=sudsy]What I also said, Kaynie (and what you have conveniently overlooked because it doesn't suit your point of view), was that I could equally imagine a couple getting together and STILL being happy to swing.
I said that I found the whole question confusing, because I couldn't really see what it was driving at. It is simply not possible for any single to know in advance how they will still feel about swinging if they fall in love with another person - that is what I said in my thread.
At no time did I say that swinging couples do not love each other - that would be complete nonsense. I'm sorry if you've somehow interpreted that as offensive, but it's nothing to the offence that I feel you've caused to singles (especially single males) ever since you joined this site, both in the chatroom and in the forums. I'm afraid to say that you are consistenly aggressive, rude, unhelpful and downright arrogant wherever singles are concerned. If you ask the majority of regulars on here, I would like to think that they will describe me as extremely respectful, considerate and helpful, and I think my profile comments back that up. What's more, I'm not the only single that that could apply to.
This site is a community, and I like to think I have invested a lot of time back into it by helping other people as well having the benefit of taking from it too. From what I've seen, that's not an epitaph you'll ever earn.[/quote]
I think Sudsy has confirmed what many of us thing, the disrespect and misunderstanding the single male has of the swinging couple.
He says that if a single meets someone and loves them so much they cannot share is it a bad thing (words to that effect anyway)
When will these people realise that it takes pure love to not only watch your partner having sex with other people but to actually enjoy the experience in the knowledge that you are giving them fun and joy that others cannot experience or cannot allow thier partners to experience because they care more for their own jealous thoughts than they care for their partners needs.
The love that swinging partners have for each other is imense and I for one resent his comments that indicate he thinks swinging couples don't love each other very much in order to allow each other to do this.
That was what the initial question was all about, singles enjoy the pleasures swinging couples bring to them but would they be willing to give the same, I don't believe they can actually answer this question until they experience the level of love swingers have for each other and you have to be in a relationship to see that.
Those that cannot swing through jealousy do not have this level of love, they don't have the level of trust that swingers have, they have those silent self doubts or worry that their partner will run off with someone else, personally I prefer the levels of trust we swingers have.
I like this question and will find the replies very interesting.
If the guys take the trouble to reply and if they dare to be honest.
I stand by what I said, I personally do not think Doc should be here attempting to be a swinger, he is married and cheating on his partner and that is against the ethics of swingers.
Having said that I go on to repeat, it is my personal feeling and I am a member of this site and nothing more, it is not up to me wether he stays or goes, he alone can make that descision, whilst he and others like him are here I will treat them with respect and always be polite to them.
That's it, I will not patronise him I will not lie, I do not agree with what he does and I don't think cheating has any place in swinging but he has not broken any site rules so I see no reason why he should be banned, I thank him for his honesty so that we and others can make our own minds up as to wether we chose to play with him or not.
When playing with single males we always do what checks we can to see if they are genuinly single or married and cheating, you cannot always be sure but there are ways of catching them out when they are not upfront and honest about it, not everyone is as honest as doc.
And now for another can of worms, here again there are some who will disagree with me and some who will dislike me for my comments, that's a shame because I do not dislike anyone else for having thier own minds and thoughts.
Should non-swingers be allowed on the site, firstly my estimate it that the percentage of non swinging people here is imense, sadly most don't admit it.
I think many of the members here are only here to watch the performers on cam in the chat room, too often the room has so many people in it but you only get spoken to by a few genuine people or if your on cam.
Ask some of the genuine single girls how many times they are let down by single males who arrange meets and then either not turn up or cancel at the last minute, too many people here think it's a game and that meeting isn't to be taken seriously.
Again there are websites for people who only want to watch cam action or perform on cam.
Having said that I don't think there is any reason why you have to be a swinger to be here providing you are honest about not being one, those that are honest do not timewaste arranging meets and cancelling or not turning up and so they do no harm, moreover it is nice that they enjoy our company and do not judge us for what we do.
Non swingers do tend to chat more in the chatroom and keep the room moving and the conversation interesting.
So personally speaking if your joining this site as a none swinger to see what the lifestyle is about, make friends in an honest way, chat to people who are in the lifestyle, good luck to you and welcome.
If on the other hand your on the site to perform on cam or watch people on cam or wind people up or waste thier time then no I don't think you should be here, go to a site for exhibitionists or voyeurs or (and yes there are such sites) for people who like to be insulted.
Of course we have our opinion, that is what we have been saying in all our posts to this thread and it is OUR opinion and we know that not everyone agrees with us, thank heavens for that, we have tried to be honest and helpful by adding our opinion to this thread, some will be against what Doc wants to do, some will be for it, at the end of the day it does not matter what anyone thinks, Doc must do what he feels most comfortable doing, that in essesence is swinging, doing what you do and feeling comfortable about it without offending others, Doc and his actions don't offend us, we know some people prefer to meet guys who are married and cheating as they believe there is less likelihood of these guys running around shouting about what happened and thats a fair train of thought.
Doc asked for opinions and we gave ours, that is what he wanted honest answers not patronising comments, if he didn't want honest answers he wouldn't have asked the question. When we see doc in the chatroom we always say hello, if he speaks to us we answer politely as we do with everyone else, we do not treat him in any way different to the way we treat anyone else, but he asked for opinions and we gave ours, if having our opinion has upset any of you then we are sorry. We also have a lot of respect for Doc for being honest about what he does and letting people make their own choice as to wether they want to be a part of it or not, it is not all negative.
Do we think Doc or anyone like him should leave the site or not be allowed in it, of course we don't, we don't agree with what he does but who are we to decide what others should do, him or others like him or those that want to play with him, an opinion is an opinion freely given at his request and nothing more.
And finally it is a good question, one that needed to be asked, thank you Doc for giving us and others a chance to comment, that is one of the good things about sites like this and forums, forums a place to air opinions.....
This is an excellent discussion, this is what the message boards are for, or at least some of the boards.
The question was asked
"I want to know if women are against meets with single guys like myself, and why when there is a legitimate reason for people joining the site for that reason."
For the most part the answer seems to be "live and let live" well not me, some things are important to me, swinging is one of them, I will not let a paeodophile "live and let live" just because I don't agree with his views but think he should have his right to them and neither would any of you nor will I be a hypocrit and say that some things are ok to allow and some things are not.
Yes the crime is not quite as bad, but where do you draw the line, the question is should people who are cheating on their partners be welcomed into the swinging scene, I think not, swingers have enough bigots to contend with without leaving ourselves open to the "it breaks up marriages" and "you steel husbands and wives".
The gentleman in question says he does it because his wife will not conform to his wishes, so he has to cheat on her, it is not for him a question of curbing his desires and conforming to what she wants.
He does not explain why he choosed to use swingers sites and the swinging lifestyle when there are other options available to him ie the married and cheating sites mentioned in earlier messages, he appears to just want our acceptance that what he is doing is ok because in his mind it is justified.
As swingers you should all know that the consent part of what we do is what makes it good. no lame exuses, we enjoy sex, we enjoy variety but we don't do it at our partners expense or that of our families.
We think you missed a point there bibigtits, you say your married and have your husbands consent, therefore your not married and cheating your doing what you do with your partners consent or in other words doing what swingers do best.
Thats my whole point, though I would be quick to point out that it is our thoughts and we understand that not everyone feels like we do.
We think that Doc Martin is wrong to presume that the other sites (the married and cheating) sites are unsuitable, they offer everything that swing sites offer, company, social events, chatrooms, cam rooms, a place to organise meets for sex, in fact they offer a lot more facilities for social meeting than swing sites do as they believe that a lot of their members are missing the affection, hugs n kisses of relationships than the sex in them.
In the chatroom we will talk to those that are married and cheating without prejudice, ill feeling or any other attitude, they choose to do what they do in the same way we choose to do what we do, but if you open a thread and ask the question, expect some replies that don't agree with your own.
ok you have asked why some of us think it is wrong for married males or indeed married females to use this site, call themselves swingers, go to swing clubs, arrange meets on a swinging basis, well the reason is exactly that, we are swingers, we do NOT cheat of our partners, we do what we do with our partners consent.
If you want to cheat on your partner go to one of the hundreds of websites for that purpose ie Married and Cheating chatroom, very popular and based all over the world, (incidently swingers are banned from this chatroom as only those cheating on partners are allowed in it so if your a swinging couple and want to have a look at it pretend your a cheat)
We never understand why married males and females want to use swingers rooms when there are adequate facilities for them elsewhere on the net, would you use a gay room to find a woman ? or a lesbian room to find a man ? if not why use a swingers room to find people happy to cheat or play with those cheating ?
We think it is one of the things that brings the whole swinging lifestyle into disrepute and therefore would never play with a male or female who is cheating or for that matter a couple made up of cheating people.
As for the second point in this forum
"I sometimes feel there are dual standards at work: why is it there are so many people looking only for bi girls and bi guys , especially couples, yet very few are interested in single, older guys It's like it's OK if the man wants more fun but not necessarily the woman if you get my drift. Do women join just to please their partner?"
The answer to this seems obvious, it's purely down to mathematics and taste, many people become swingers because what they find a turn on is not available everywhere else, I am in a happy relationship but the one thing my partner cannot give me is the pleasure I get from playing with another woman, an older guy I can get (and have) easily, so bi men, bi women find the scene attractive for this very purpose, if couples want older guys they can find them anywhere, whereas 98% of women at clubs are bisexual, and go to a bi night at a club and find lots of bi guys.
Hiya, we are Kaynie and Jed, new to the site but not to the scene, just returned from 2 years running a swingers hotel in Switzerland and back to running our small Bed and Breakfast in the West Midlands, looking to catch up with old friends and make new ones, cannot travel but can accommodate.
Validated profile here and on 2 other sites, pictures of both of us in our profile, If you like what you read and see get in touch.
Kaynie 22, slim size 8, Bisexual, long black hair, 5ft nothing.
Jed slim, fit, size 10 dress if he wore one, black hair 5ft 7ins.
Byeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
[U]underlined text here[/U] 
Join in on the fun. lol.
I am happy to email and meet, but only after getting to know each other.
Any ideas please let me know. emailto: "unquote
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That apart what is it in your profile that makes you think couples or single females are going to contact you and invite them to have sex with them.
The truth is most of us read as much about a person from what they do NOT write than what they do write,
In your case you have stated that you don't know what to expect, so meeting you could be a complete waste of our time, you may get to the meet point and decide that it wasn't what you expected and go home, you may not want to do what the couple or single females want to do.
The only thing we do know about you from your profile is that you want to spend time getting to know the other people before you swing with them, you don't actually say how you would like to do this "getting to know us" ie do you expect to meet up a few times before swinging, do you want to send lots of mails back and forth or speak on the telephone or use morse code ?
We do not know how you want to meet us, can you travel, can you accommodate, do you go to swing clubs, would you go to swing clubs, do you envisage using dogging sites ?
We do not know what you want to do with couples or single females, do you like watersports, BDSM, anal sex DP, Spit roast, cattle prods or what ?
We do not know what you will not do with those you meet.
Are you respectfull to those you intend meeting, your profile only says what you want, what are you willing to give or do, I mean will you respect everyone elses boundaries and rules, will you be pushy or will you let them decide if things are to progress, telling us this would at least let us know that you are aware that such things are important.
You say you know how to pleasure, well that makes you very exceptional, we have been swinging for 6 years and we do not know how to pleasure everyone, we do know how to find out what people like but we also know that everyone is different and inserting a finger in the bum of one person would drive them wild but would really upset some other partners we play with. So apart from not knowing what you want or what is going to happen on a meet we can see that your also very presumptious, defintely not a good attribute in the swining scene.
In short there is so much missing from your profile and so many other guys out there the reason your not getting anywhere is probably because you can't be bothered making the effort to get people interested in you and we the couples and single females can't be bothered trying to find out if your worth meeting.
Harsh --------- No honest advice which if taken on board may improve your chances of finding what you are looking for on this site. 